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X Canadian
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm bored, no NHL, PGA rained out at Riviera, Nascar race is over. I'm thinking about doing an autopsy on a suspected fake Monte #2 or a RyJ Churchill.

I could post pictures for all too look at and maybe invite some commentary.

What would I be looking for as I disected it that would confirm it's fakeness.

Maybe that would prevent you guys from your Liberal vs Conservative debates on another thread and it's obvious results.

Want to see it?

SeanGar :bx IHT
 

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An ass, not a fish
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4,476 Posts
(909) said:
Want to see it?

SeanGar :bx IHT
Hah. I'd be on my ass so fast the draft would put out IHT's stogie.

I have cut open cigars before mainly to look at the construction of cheap cigars. If its costing me 80 cents, I don't mind opening one up. Cheaper constructions include short filler or cuban sandwich. Both have shorter pieces of tobacco, the cuban sandwich uses some long filler leaves and some short stuff in the middle. Short filler is all short inside.

I think the aroma of Cuban tobacco, especially ostensibly top drawer tobacco you would expect in a Monte 2, has a different aroma than most anything else I have smelled. But I don't have experience to say with certainty by smelling alone....smoking one is almost for sure. I expect one of the gurus like Davec or Mo could tell just by smelling the smoke quite easily.

The only thing I suppose that would scream fake on a dissected Monte 2 other than tobacco aroma to an expert would be sandwich or short filler construction.

I have pictures of my desctruction of a JR Alt Bolivar Corona that I can post ... but its nothing particularly interesting other than to show the sandwich construction. Did you see the fellow someplace that took apart an anny Padron? Interesting to see the separated leaves, but I nearly cried when I saw it.
 

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X Canadian
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1,306 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Never mind the autopsy, I just went to the garage and lit up a "Monte #2" and then an "RyJ Chruchill", both tasted like dog crap. The burn sucked other than the burn in my throat.

Heres a review of my fake stogies that I spent a lo of money on.

"Monte #2"
First impression: Harsh flavor like an unfiltered Marlboro
Burn: uneven burn and ash discolored
I put it out after the first inch

"RyJ Churchill"
First impression: Harsh flavor like an unfiltered Marlboro
Burn: uneven burn and ash discolored
Second impression: a sweat flavored salt taste that occured at every drag.
I put it out after the first inch.

I think that they were the same tobacco, and judging by the flavor, the same kind used in American cigarettes. I've smoked American, Canadian, Mexican and French cigarettes and have a an idea what they all taste like. This was very Marlboro like.

MOTHER F****R!!!!!!!!

I spent $135.00 on this crap, I want to kick somebody's ass. I think I'll go smoke a Party Short, that'll make me feel better.
 

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An ass, not a fish
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4,476 Posts
(909) said:
I think that they were the same tobacco, and judging by the flavor, the same kind used in American cigarettes. I've smoked American, Canadian, Mexican and French cigarettes and have a an idea what they all taste like. This was very Marlboro like.
Marlboro is a premium cigarette you know. Now if you told me they tasted like Doral.....THEN they would be sheat......
 

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SeanGAR said:
Hah. I'd be on my ass so fast the draft would put out IHT's stogie.

I have cut open cigars before mainly to look at the construction of cheap cigars. If its costing me 80 cents, I don't mind opening one up. Cheaper constructions include short filler or cuban sandwich. Both have shorter pieces of tobacco, the cuban sandwich uses some long filler leaves and some short stuff in the middle. Short filler is all short inside.

I think the aroma of Cuban tobacco, especially ostensibly top drawer tobacco you would expect in a Monte 2, has a different aroma than most anything else I have smelled. But I don't have experience to say with certainty by smelling alone....smoking one is almost for sure. I expect one of the gurus like Davec or Mo could tell just by smelling the smoke quite easily.

The only thing I suppose that would scream fake on a dissected Monte 2 other than tobacco aroma to an expert would be sandwich or short filler construction.

I have pictures of my desctruction of a JR Alt Bolivar Corona that I can post ... but its nothing particularly interesting other than to show the sandwich construction. Did you see the fellow someplace that took apart an anny Padron? Interesting to see the separated leaves, but I nearly cried when I saw it.
If not too much trouble I would be interested in seeing those pictures.

Thanx
 

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MoTheMentor
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3,075 Posts
I've dissected quite a few cigars. 'Tis a habit of mine. Learned quite a few things doing that. Here's what you may find in a fake.

1) The quality of wrapper will be poor. Thick, less oily, harsher aroma when burning.
2) Expect short filler or bits of leaf instead of whole leaf.
3) You will likely find stems, and maybe lots of them.
4) Don't be surprised if you find non-tobacco filler (I know one guy who found bits of banana leaf -- he was adamant about that).
5) Construction will appear poor, even to the untrained eye. Bad or uneven bunching.

On the other hand, a good premium cigar, especially a habano made totalmendo a mano will have:

1) Excellent construction. You'll be able to tell by the way the leaves were bunched and rolled.
2) Expect long filler. On a rare occassion, you'll find partial leaf in there, but a hand made cigar will be almost entirely long filler. Just dissect out that Party short you're talking about -- ALL LONG FILER. Heck, even a Cohiba Panatela (a cigarillo size) which is hand rolled -- ALL LONG FILLER, all four leaves that are in it!!
3) The wrapper will generally be of very high quality; silky, thin, smooth, very aromatic, nice burn, etc..
4) Don't be surprised if you find that the binder is of similar quality as the wrapper. A lot of rollers will use a poor quality wrapper as a binder, the logic being that even a poor wrapper still has good burn qualities of a binder. A lot of the top premium Habanos will have this. That, BTW, is an added plus. It gives the cigar a bit more flavor.

Don't hesitate to unravel a partially smoked cigar. Just because it has been smoked doesn't mean that you can't unravel it. Sure, you'll hands will smell a bit, but, hey, you can wash them with soap & water.

Just my .02 . :)
 

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X Canadian
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Mo check this out, I did the autopsy but the garage was taking in water and I had bigger things to worry about so I threw the autopsy away before I got pictures. Heres what I found:

1) Excellent construction. You'll be able to tell by the way the leaves were bunched and rolled. Not bad construction, maybe a little sloppy
2) Expect long filler. Had long filler
3) The wrapper will generally be of very high quality; silky, thin, smooth, very aromatic, nice burn, etc.. Had thin wrapper, silky and thin
4) Don't be surprised if you find that the binder is of similar quality as the wrapper. Binder looked a lot like the filler

Heres the kicker, I received a Monte #2 from a friend (ND thank you) and out the two side by side, I will refer to the possible fake as the Monte F. The Monte F had a wrapper that was rolled in the opposite direction of the Monte #2. The Monte F end treatment was not as clean as the Monte #2. The labels were different shades. The Monte F smelled pretty bland next to the Monte #2. The real Monte had that sweet barnyard horse poop smell that I associate with the real deal. The Monte F smelled like a La Gloria, not bad just different.
 

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I've dissected quite a few cigars. 'Tis a habit of mine. Learned quite a few things doing that. Here's what you may find in a fake.

1) The quality of wrapper will be poor. Thick, less oily, harsher aroma when burning.
2) Expect short filler or bits of leaf instead of whole leaf.
3) You will likely find stems, and maybe lots of them.
4) Don't be surprised if you find non-tobacco filler (I know one guy who found bits of banana leaf -- he was adamant about that).
5) Construction will appear poor, even to the untrained eye. Bad or uneven bunching.

On the other hand, a good premium cigar, especially a habano made totalmendo a mano will have:

1) Excellent construction. You'll be able to tell by the way the leaves were bunched and rolled.
2) Expect long filler. On a rare occassion, you'll find partial leaf in there, but a hand made cigar will be almost entirely long filler. Just dissect out that Party short you're talking about -- ALL LONG FILER. Heck, even a Cohiba Panatela (a cigarillo size) which is hand rolled -- ALL LONG FILLER, all four leaves that are in it!!
3) The wrapper will generally be of very high quality; silky, thin, smooth, very aromatic, nice burn, etc..
4) Don't be surprised if you find that the binder is of similar quality as the wrapper. A lot of rollers will use a poor quality wrapper as a binder, the logic being that even a poor wrapper still has good burn qualities of a binder. A lot of the top premium Habanos will have this. That, BTW, is an added plus. It gives the cigar a bit more flavor.

Don't hesitate to unravel a partially smoked cigar. Just because it has been smoked doesn't mean that you can't unravel it. Sure, you'll hands will smell a bit, but, hey, you can wash them with soap & water.

Just my .02 . :)
***Bump***

As we have gotten a lot of posts recently regarding fakes, I thought it would be good to top this excellent post about dissecting a cigar. I think Mo has a more in depth post but I cannot find it (I believe the other one had information on how to actually do it, ie wet the cigar a bit, be careful not to rip the leaves, etc). Anyway, the price you pay in dissecting one can provide valuable information.

I do not mind the posts and pictures because I have done it myself but this is another way to determine fake from real.

Maybe a mod can move this to the Habanos or Hall of Fame section as I think it may be more appropriate in one of those forums.
 

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I was present once during the dissection of a RyJ churchill. It was authentic, but it was plugged. The guy got barely any smoke from it. He sliced it lengthwise and it was all long filler, except for one stem that sat crossways near the head.
 
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