[Hoakin81]

I will try to keep this brief in order not to bore anyone.

Just to provide some context, my current stock is 25 sticks. This stock will be split between my good air-tight Tupperdor (20 Sticks) which is currently running on 65% Bovedas and resting at 68% RH (strange but anyway..) and a very small Humidor (4-5 Sticks) which I am currently seasoning using 84% Bovedas.

The initial plan was to keep the bulk of the stock in the very stable RH-wise Tupperdor with the cellos on and the remaining 4-5 cigars in line to-be-smoked to be in the Humidor without cellos to benefit from a more hands-on direct humidification. Every time one of the Humidor sticks was smoked I would replace it with one of the Tupperdor ones and so on.

Unfortunately, what I failed to consider due to my inexperience on the hobby was the factor "strength". You see my last smoke was not very enjoyable (dizziness, nausea etc.) which made me look into it and found out that my last cigar was a "mere" medium one strength-wise. Obviously my nicotine tolerance is zero and with my smoking frequency of 2 cigars per month I do not believe it will grow anytime soon (and I am happy about it to be honest).

Obviously, I checked my stock and realized that 9 of my cigars are mild, 5 are strong and the rest are medium strength. Smoking the strong (or even medium) ones is a no-go at this point (all curchills, robustos and toros by the way). So, searched a bit and read online that that strong cigars will mellow-out with time and mild cigars are not worth aging because they will become totally flat. With this information in mind perhaps the humidor can be re-purposed..

The new plan is to smoke all mild cigars directly from the Tupperdor and use the humidor to gradually age the medium and strong ones to a more mellow and smokable (for me) state.

The questions are:

• Does the new plan make sense?
• Does the strength of the cigars also mellow with time or only flavors etc.?
• If the above is true, how much time would it take for a strong cigar to become i.e. medium in strength?
• Does storing the cigars without the cello speed-up the mellowing process?

Thanks in advance

 

[Bird-Dog]

Sorry, but you're going to be waiting a long, long time if you expect age to take the edge off strength-wise. I mean like 5 to 10 years or more, and even then it depends on the cigar. Some may mellow, some won't. And some will simply lose flavor and be fairly well ruined. Though, to be fair, it is typically the stronger ones that tend to age best and milder ones most likely to go downhill.

You also need to be aware that strength ratings are subjective and may vary from one manufacturer to the next, or from one growing area to another. For example, cigars from that mystical island of legendary cigars, that rarely puts them in cellophane, will run in a much narrower band than most other countries. A "mild" one of those will likely be more like medium or even medium full from most other areas. and a "full" one won't necessarily be as strong as those ranked "full" from elsewhere.

Also be aware that cellophane is porous. There is little, if any, evidence to support aging or mellowing would be changed in any way with the cello removed.

Frankly, your best bet may be to cut your loses and simply replace any cigars you have that don't suit you. With luck maybe you can find a fellow cigar smoker who will trade you for some better suited to your palate and tolerance level.

Also, I'm not sure what you're calling a 4-5 cigar humidor. The only ones I know with such limited capacity are travel humidors, meant for short term use. Regardless, I can't see any humidor that small being of much use for long term aging. They simply cannot be expected to maintain stable RH with such limited air space.

Again, find cigars that work for you and stick with them. Otherwise, you'll simply have to try them and be prepared to ditch any that are too strong for you rather than finish them. No sense punishing yourself just because you bought the wrong cigar.

 

[FluorideInMyWater]

as far as your small (desktop) humidor, what is the temperature inside. small desktop boxes usually get too hot and your cigars can get mildew or it could cause cigar beetles to hatch. if you plan on expanding your collection or keep cigars long term i'd invest in one of these new lower price humidors. (check the reviews though)
sometimes humidity packs get over saturated with water inside so they give off slightly higher humidity.. you can just leave them on the counter for a few hours and it will loose some of that excess moisture, but if you leave it out a day, expect it to be dry.
temperature can mess with humidity. the higher the ambient temperature, the higher the humidity will be. lower temperatures will cause the humidity level to be a bit lower. it all depends on where you live and what the regional temperature is like. people in Pennsylvania will have zero issues but people in nevada will have tons more issues. if you have a basement, store them there. it is cooler. if you live in a hot state then you need climate control.
as far a celophane is concerned, it's purpose is to protect the cigar during packing, shipping, handling, sales. Cigar Aficionado magazine says that the celophane keeps the cigar hydrated for up to 30 days. yes it is pourous, but that just allows it to breath. they recommend removing the celophane once you get them and put them in your humidor. if you don't they will dry out faster (according to Cigar Aficionado). my personal experience has been the same. i kept 10 cigars in a tupperware container in a wine fridge for 5 years and they dried out and lost the flavor. keeping the oils on the wrapper moist is important because that is what gives the cigar flavor. the filler is just there to slow the burn process down so you can enjoy the wrapper (for the most point. Again I am referencing a few articles from Cigar Aficinado magazine. other people will have different opinions. no one method is right. it's all about experimentation and what works for you.

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www.ebay.com

 

[Hoakin81]

Thanks for the replies guys.

Currently my small desktop humidor is running at 69 deg. F and 73% rh while still seasoning. Hopefully, afterwards I will be able to keep a steady 65-67% using 69% Boveda packs but we will see.

To be honest, I am not surprised from @Bird-Dog 's reply since I would have guessed as much after reading on the subj. of cigar aging. Basically that it requires quite some time, patience and ideal conditions. In any case, the option of finding someone to trade etc. is not viable and frankly not worth the effort for 5 sticks valued at 5-10$ each more or less.

However, what @FluorideInMyWater said really caught me by surprise. I realize that the topic of with or without Cellos is personal and subjective, but so far i never came across the notion that the cellos are actually drying out the cigars. Based on all relevant videos i have seen and all the articles i have read the only real drawback (apart from the aesthetic one) is that in the cello the cigar is humidified but much more slowly (like X7 times).

In any case, seems that eventually i will have to try my strong stogies as well. Apart from the standard advice i know about, not smoking on an empty stomach, taking your time etc. is there anything that might assist in coping against stronger sticks? Personally i can only think of sharing them with the wife...

Thanks again.

 

[ADRUNKK]

I do not subscribe to the theory of removing cello. I wind up with way more damaged cigars that way. Cello on or cello off I havent noticed any effect on my cigars being drier or not.

If you start getting the spins or feeling sick from vitamin N try putting some sugar under your tongue and let it dissolve naturally.

 

[benjamin831]

Do not remove cello and I've been collecting cigars for a very long time. The advantages vastly outweigh the disadvantages and you'll just have to learn to accept the look of it.

For what its worth, I recently smoked a Davidoff Millennium Blend torpedo and it was divine. It has been in my humidor since circa 2008 and the cello was completely yellow. I definitely noticed a drop in strength but the flavors were unbeatable.

 

[OneStrangeOne]

And here’s another vote for keeping the cello on! I agree with both of the above post that the benefits far outweigh any drawbacks, sugar in any form will help negate the effects of the nicotine, chocolate, sodas etc.

 

[TheDutchest]

I'm a cigar noob aswell, but I do have a very high nic tolorance from vaping, which I also had to build up. I used to get naussia a lot when I just started and what really helped was drinking plenty of water and eating well before. I don't know if it applies to you, but maybe it helps!

 

[M39]

Regarding cello wrapper, I prefer to keep it on to protect cigar from wrapper damage when rummaging around humidor (example below of one without cello). It modulates internal humidity slowly and more evenly. If your humidor is overhumidified, you're less likely to get overexpansion and cracking at the cigar foot.

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[FroOchie]

Sorry, but you're going to be waiting a long, long time if you expect age to take the edge off strength-wise. I mean like 5 to 10 years or more, and even then it depends on the cigar. Some may mellow, some won't. And some will simply lose flavor and be fairly well ruined. Though, to be fair, it is typically the stronger ones that tend to age best and milder ones most likely to go downhill.

Id have to agree, many of my cigars are aged at least 5 years and none have mellowed. The only thing noticed is that you have little chance of the ammonia taste some newer cigars MAY have.

 

[FluorideInMyWater]

so here is the article from CA magazine

Cellophane | Cigar Aficionado

Browse the largest collection of cigar ratings and reviews as well as the latest coverage on cigars, Cuba, gambling, golf, beer, spirits, and more.

www.cigaraficionado.com

now, again. there is no right answer. just observations and preferences. experiment with some.
the yellowing of the cellophane is actually the oils from the wrapper. i have read that the more oily cigars are more expensive ones that are much bigger on flavor. so keeping the oil on the cigar is preferable. when the cigar starts to dry out the oils start to dry up to and leave the residue on the cellophane.
i can't completely confirm this....it is based on an assumption from the article attached. they indicate that the cellophane protects the cigar from handling and keeps humidity in, for.....from my recollection of he article.....not reading again today, but it keeps a good 30 days worth of humidity in. so after that you need another humidity source. now, the cellophane is absolutely porous. but to what extent is the real question. my assumption is that it allows air to to flow but not moisture. if it keeps the moisture in i would assume that it would also keep moisture out, but airflow is both ways. that is why i take them off. another reason is the aging. the cedar drawers act like oak wine barrels. the wine interacts with the wood giving it a nutty flavor. using old previously used barrel wood is preferable b/c they have been seasoned by their interaction with the wine. the same is true of cigars and cedar. cedar is supposed to help with cigar beetles, but the interaction of the off-gassings from the cigar with the cedar creates a "marinating" environment". all the cigars and the cedar interact and that is part of what "aging" accomplishishes. it's like seasoning your prime rib. you add lots of different spices together and throw it on a smoker and all that stuff plays off each other and the end result is greater than each individual ingredients.
anyhow. experiment with it. take half of them out and leave half in and leave them in for a while and see what happens.

here is another opinion from just googling the question
How long will a cigar last in cellophane?

The cellophane will roughly retain the freshness of the cigar for 30 days. After 30 days, the cigar will start to dry out because of the wrappers' porous properties allowing air to pass through. If you keep the cigar within the cellophane wrapper and then place the cigar in a humidor, it will last indefinitely.Jun 30, 2021

 

[Bird-Dog]

so here is the article from CA magazine

Cellophane | Cigar Aficionado

Browse the largest collection of cigar ratings and reviews as well as the latest coverage on cigars, Cuba, gambling, golf, beer, spirits, and more.

www.cigaraficionado.com

now, again. there is no right answer. just observations and preferences. experiment with some.
the yellowing of the cellophane is actually the oils from the wrapper. i have read that the more oily cigars are more expensive ones that are much bigger on flavor. so keeping the oil on the cigar is preferable. when the cigar starts to dry out the oils start to dry up to and leave the residue on the cellophane.
i can't completely confirm this....it is based on an assumption from the article attached. they indicate that the cellophane protects the cigar from handling and keeps humidity in, for.....from my recollection of he article.....not reading again today, but it keeps a good 30 days worth of humidity in. so after that you need another humidity source. now, the cellophane is absolutely porous. but to what extent is the real question. my assumption is that it allows air to to flow but not moisture. if it keeps the moisture in i would assume that it would also keep moisture out, but airflow is both ways. that is why i take them off. another reason is the aging. the cedar drawers act like oak wine barrels. the wine interacts with the wood giving it a nutty flavor. using old previously used barrel wood is preferable b/c they have been seasoned by their interaction with the wine. the same is true of cigars and cedar. cedar is supposed to help with cigar beetles, but the interaction of the off-gassings from the cigar with the cedar creates a "marinating" environment". all the cigars and the cedar interact and that is part of what "aging" accomplishishes. it's like seasoning your prime rib. you add lots of different spices together and throw it on a smoker and all that stuff plays off each other and the end result is greater than each individual ingredients.
anyhow. experiment with it. take half of them out and leave half in and leave them in for a while and see what happens.

here is another opinion from just googling the question
How long will a cigar last in cellophane?

The cellophane will roughly retain the freshness of the cigar for 30 days. After 30 days, the cigar will start to dry out because of the wrappers' porous properties allowing air to pass through. If you keep the cigar within the cellophane wrapper and then place the cigar in a humidor, it will last indefinitely.Jun 30, 2021

If the cello only "allows air to to flow but not moisture", how would that moisture escape in those 30-days, or at all?

It would seem what's happening is actually closer to the opposite. Cellulose is hygroscopic, meaning it tends to attract and absorb water. Therefore, when we talk about it being "porous" with respect to humidity, what that likely really means is that the minute amount of moisture held within the cellulose itself can either 1) Evaporate from the surface of the cellophane in lower humidity (hence that 30-day rule-of-thumb as the cigar gives up moisture over time to replenish what the cello itself loses to evaporation) -or- 2) Be absorbed by a cigar within if it's drier than the air around the cello (which is what happens in a humidor as a cigar's RH is raised, taking moisture from the cello wrapper, which is in turn replenished by the higher RH air around it).

Granted, it's a very minute amount of moisture lost or gained either way. Which is why the cello is able to keep the cigar relatively humidified for whatever length of time outside a humidor. But I don't think it's due to the same effect or process as what we'd typically imagine as "porous" with respect to air passing through.

 

[FluorideInMyWater]

If the cello only "allows air to to flow but not moisture", how would that moisture escape in those 30-days, or at all?

It would seem what's happening is actually closer to the opposite. Cellulose is hygroscopic, meaning it tends to attract and absorb water. Therefore, when we talk about it being "porous" with respect to humidity, what that likely really means is that the minute amount of moisture held within the cellulose itself can either 1) Evaporate from the surface of the cellophane in lower humidity (hence that 30-day rule-of-thumb as the cigar gives up moisture over time to replenish what the cello itself loses to evaporation) -or- 2) Be absorbed by a cigar within if it's drier than the air around the cello (which is what happens in a humidor as a cigar's RH is raised, taking moisture from the cello wrapper, which is in turn replenished by the higher RH air around it).

Granted, it's a very minute amount of moisture lost or gained either way. Which is why the cello is able to keep the cigar relatively humidified for whatever length of time outside a humidor. But I don't think it's due to the same effect or process as what we'd typically imagine as "porous" with respect to air passing through.

good question. i can just speculate, not really give a definitive answer. D - all of the above. E- none of the above. lol
i think, an assumption, that there is better air circulation and therefore better moisture circulation without the cellophane. i also think the cedar and other cigars add to the environment like the oak wine barrel example i gave. but ultimately is was my experience storing 20 cigars for 4 or 5 years that convinced me to take them off, especially after reading some articles. the cellophane had turned yellow and the overall cigar quality was slightly poorer once i removed the wrappers and inspected the cigars. and when i smoked them they burned well, but had lost the flavors that were there when they were new. I actually took my 20 cigars in my tupperware container to a local cigar shop and got the manager to smoke a few of them and give me his opinion. he said the same. they smoked and burned really well, but they had lost a lot of their flavors. i'm really gentle with my cigars and monitor the RH daily and have increase air flow from 2 auxiliary fans i installed inside, so i get great airflow and now inconsistent dead humidity spots or elevated. i have 5 drawers that all have ventilation but there is usually 1-2% RH variance from the top drawer to the bottom. so in my unit there is constant air flow, circulation, and new air coming in through a Hepa Filter i designed and installed on the back. the cigars look great and as long as they are around 68%RH, i'm happy with the setup. i'll let you know in 10 years how they aged.

 

[M39]

good question. i can just speculate, not really give a definitive answer. D - all of the above. E- none of the above. lol
i think, an assumption, that there is better air circulation and therefore better moisture circulation without the cellophane. i also think the cedar and other cigars add to the environment like the oak wine barrel example i gave. but ultimately is was my experience storing 20 cigars for 4 or 5 years that convinced me to take them off, especially after reading some articles. the cellophane had turned yellow and the overall cigar quality was slightly poorer once i removed the wrappers and inspected the cigars. and when i smoked them they burned well, but had lost the flavors that were there when they were new. I actually took my 20 cigars in my tupperware container to a local cigar shop and got the manager to smoke a few of them and give me his opinion. he said the same. they smoked and burned really well, but they had lost a lot of their flavors. i'm really gentle with my cigars and monitor the RH daily and have increase air flow from 2 auxiliary fans i installed inside, so i get great airflow and now inconsistent dead humidity spots or elevated. i have 5 drawers that all have ventilation but there is usually 1-2% RH variance from the top drawer to the bottom. so in my unit there is constant air flow, circulation, and new air coming in through a Hepa Filter i designed and installed on the back. the cigars look great and as long as they are around 68%RH, i'm happy with the setup. i'll let you know in 10 years how they aged.

Regarding cello affecting flavors after extended aging, from my personal experience cello doesn’t matter. The aging will usually mellow out flavors, regardless of cello. Some people might interpret it as loss of flavors. I think of it more as a “smoothening”, assuming it’s a quality cigar to begin with. I think the flavor profiles change for the better most times.

 

[Bird-Dog]

good question. i can just speculate, not really give a definitive answer. D - all of the above. E- none of the above. lol
i think, an assumption, that there is better air circulation and therefore better moisture circulation without the cellophane. i also think the cedar and other cigars add to the environment like the oak wine barrel example i gave. but ultimately is was my experience storing 20 cigars for 4 or 5 years that convinced me to take them off, especially after reading some articles. the cellophane had turned yellow and the overall cigar quality was slightly poorer once i removed the wrappers and inspected the cigars. and when i smoked them they burned well, but had lost the flavors that were there when they were new. I actually took my 20 cigars in my tupperware container to a local cigar shop and got the manager to smoke a few of them and give me his opinion. he said the same. they smoked and burned really well, but they had lost a lot of their flavors. i'm really gentle with my cigars and monitor the RH daily and have increase air flow from 2 auxiliary fans i installed inside, so i get great airflow and now inconsistent dead humidity spots or elevated. i have 5 drawers that all have ventilation but there is usually 1-2% RH variance from the top drawer to the bottom. so in my unit there is constant air flow, circulation, and new air coming in through a Hepa Filter i designed and installed on the back. the cigars look great and as long as they are around 68%RH, i'm happy with the setup. i'll let you know in 10 years how they aged.

Sorry, my head is spinning just trying to decipher that post. Frankly, I don't really care what anyone chooses to do with their cellos, one way or the other. Like our unofficial motto "Smoke what you like, like what you smoke", the "Cello on or off?" question ultimately comes down to personal preference; do whichever suits you best.

Nevertheless, over the years we've seen some knock-down, drag-out battles over this issue that became nothing more than a series of angry tirades. I'm happy to give you the last word, if it's important to you. But if this thread is going to simply devolve into another one of those pointless battles, I think it will be time to shut this one down and let the OP open a new thread to pusue his other questions.

 

[benjamin831]

One thing that people don't often mention about removing cello is the loss of the cigar's bouquet. Since there's such variation in non Cuban cigars, the bouquet or nose that each cigar gives off is vastly different. An AF Opus X with a sweet Cameron wrapper smells worlds apart from a Nicaraguan Padron (no cello), which smells completely different from a Dominican Davidoff.

Cello keeps that bouquet in incredibly effectively. I have a CAO Brazillia that had been in my humidor close to 15 yrs, and if I remove it from the cello, it's unique smell has been completely preserved and still smells so strong. Had the cello been removed, most of the bouquet would've evaporated and the cigar would've taken on a mild general humidor smell.

How much does this bouquet translates into flavor upon combustion? I'm not sure. But it certainly adds so much to the overall joy and value of smoking, collecting, and learning about cigars.

Now, someone talked about cigars marinating in cedar like whiskey in oak barrels. That's a view that is popular amongst a lot of laypeople, but it's not always shared by the top players in the cigar industry. Davidoff lines the insides of their humidors exclusively in lacquered neutral wood, such as Aniegre, precisely because they do not want to impart any outside flavors to the cigar. Cigar blenders work very hard to get the exact blend of flavors in a cigar that is then delivered to the smoker. It is understandable that they do not want the taste of cedar to intrude into the blend if it's not supposed to be there.

The practice probably came from the Cuban cigars tradition of storing them in Spanish cedar boxes. But Cuban cigars are different in that they are generally much much more homogeneous, they are all Cuban puros afterall. They also have far less variation in their blends. Maduro wrappers are very rare, and historically, the biggest, albeit obsolete, difference would be AMS vs EMS, and those differences would almost never exist within the same humidor.

Honestly, if Cuban cigars all came cello-ed, different brands might smell different from each other. But we'll never know.

 

[TheDutchest]

I just saw from seed to smoke on YouTube and Davidoff is pro cello, just sayın 😏 i honestly like unpacking my cigar before I smoke it, it's like a mini unboxing every time. Off course, I don't know jack, so I do what sparks joy. Ignorance is a bliss. 😁

 

[FluorideInMyWater]

One thing that people don't often mention about removing cello is the loss of the cigar's bouquet. Since there's such variation in non Cuban cigars, the bouquet or nose that each cigar gives off is vastly different. An AF Opus X with a sweet Cameron wrapper smells worlds apart from a Nicaraguan Padron (no cello), which smells completely different from a Dominican Davidoff.

Cello keeps that bouquet in incredibly effectively. I have a CAO Brazillia that had been in my humidor close to 15 yrs, and if I remove it from the cello, it's unique smell has been completely preserved and still smells so strong. Had the cello been removed, most of the bouquet would've evaporated and the cigar would've taken on a mild general humidor smell.

How much does this bouquet translates into flavor upon combustion? I'm not sure. But it certainly adds so much to the overall joy and value of smoking, collecting, and learning about cigars.

Now, someone talked about cigars marinating in cedar like whiskey in oak barrels. That's a view that is popular amongst a lot of laypeople, but it's not always shared by the top players in the cigar industry. Davidoff lines the insides of their humidors exclusively in lacquered neutral wood, such as Aniegre, precisely because they do not want to impart any outside flavors to the cigar. Cigar blenders work very hard to get the exact blend of flavors in a cigar that is then delivered to the smoker. It is understandable that they do not want the taste of cedar to intrude into the blend if it's not supposed to be there.

The practice probably came from the Cuban cigars tradition of storing them in Spanish cedar boxes. But Cuban cigars are different in that they are generally much much more homogeneous, they are all Cuban puros afterall. They also have far less variation in their blends. Maduro wrappers are very rare, and historically, the biggest, albeit obsolete, difference would be AMS vs EMS, and those differences would almost never exist within the same humidor.

Honestly, if Cuban cigars all came cello-ed, different brands might smell different from each other. But we'll never know.

Cigar-dog. I don't see any animosity in this thread. just a bunch of different opinions, which i for one appreciate.
TheDutchest brings up some really valid point that i have not considered. especially about puros. my introduction to cigars was living across the street from La Casa Del Habano in Cancun for 4 years. I started with cubans and all i smoked was cubans, until i have to move back to the US. there was zero cellophane to be found in the humidor, and it created a flavor that was an overlap of each brand. But cigars are different. yes, blenders spend tons of time perfecting their flavor which you would want to keep separate from others. that makes sense. i thought back about my bad experience with cellophane and remembered 1 thing has changed. before i had the cigars in tupperware inside a wine fridge. I had not installed the custom cedar drawers yet. maybe that restricted flow had something to do with what happened to my cigars. i'm willing to more than consider that the cellophane may be the way to go, especially if i start getting higher priced cigars with distinctly different flavors. for the record. i never claimed to be right. i quoted some articles that i had read and gave one illustrative example of a bad personal experience. but the group brought lots of different things to my attention and i'm going to retry the cellophane approach and experiment.
thanks for the good info!

 

[Scap]

Cellos without violins are just one dimensional.

That is all.

🤣🤣🤣

 

[bpegler]

H Upmann from the 1980s. Still smoking quite well.


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