:al i may be confused smoko, maybe it wasnt the pinar at jr.s but i did hear somewhere though that someone had these pinars fairly cheap,i do remember them being around. but heard they werent any good..guess i should get my facts straight...ive had some decent and still strong cigars from 80,81, etc..but never tried anything older then 25 years, i cant imagine how they could be any good it would seem they would have past there peak.