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-   -   Pipes and Cigars won’t Ship to WA?!?! (https://www.cigarforums.net/forums/vb/general-pipe-forum/282638-pipes-cigars-won-t-ship-wa.html)

Bigjohn 08-22-2019 07:36 PM

Pipes and Cigars won’t Ship to WA?!?!
 
1 Attachment(s)
So I was getting ready to place my first order from pipes and cigars and noticed that every product has a warning banner saying that there are not able to ship to Washington state. Any idea why that is? I am kind of pissed....

Attachment 256526


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zcziggy 08-22-2019 07:46 PM

the way CA, OR and WA are going...does not surprise me

OneStrangeOne 08-22-2019 07:48 PM

I’ve heard this is so but I don’t remember what the reason is. Seems like whatever the reason was it’s something that the state did.

UBC03 08-22-2019 08:11 PM

Could it be a tax thing?

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cory1984 08-22-2019 08:12 PM

Effective July 28, 2009, RCW 70.155.140 makes it illegal for most tobacco products ordered or purchased by telephone, mail order, or through the Internet, to be shipped directly to consumers in Washington.

RCW 70.155.140


Shipping or transporting tobacco products ordered or purchased by mail or through the internet prohibitedPenalty.


(1) A person may not:
(a) Ship or transport, or cause to be shipped or transported, any tobacco product ordered or purchased by mail or through the internet to anyone in this state other than a licensed wholesaler or retailer; or
(b) With knowledge or reason to know of the violation, provide substantial assistance to a person who is in violation of this section.
(2)(a) A person who knowingly violates subsection (1) of this section is guilty of a class C felony, except that the maximum fine that may be imposed is five thousand dollars.
(b) In addition to or in lieu of any other civil or criminal remedy provided by law, a person who has violated subsection (1) of this section is subject to a civil penalty of up to five thousand dollars for each violation. The attorney general, acting in the name of the state, may seek recovery of the penalty in a civil action in superior court. For purposes of this subsection, each shipment or transport of tobacco products constitutes a separate violation.
(3) The attorney general may seek an injunction in superior court to restrain a threatened or actual violation of subsection (1) of this section and to compel compliance with subsection (1) of this section.
(4) Any violation of subsection (1) of this section is not reasonable in relation to the development and preservation of business and is an unfair and deceptive act or practice and an unfair method of competition in the conduct of trade or commerce in violation of RCW 19.86.020. Standing to bring an action to enforce RCW 19.86.020 for violation of subsection (1) of this section lies solely with the attorney general. Remedies provided by chapter 19.86 RCW are cumulative and not exclusive.
(5)(a) In any action brought under this section, the state is entitled to recover, in addition to other relief, the costs of investigation, expert witness fees, costs of the action, and reasonable attorneys' fees.
(b) If a court determines that a person has violated subsection (1) of this section, the court shall order any profits, gain, gross receipts, or other benefit from the violation to be disgorged and paid to the state treasurer for deposit in the general fund.
(6) Unless otherwise expressly provided, the penalties or remedies, or both, under this section are in addition to any other penalties and remedies available under any other law of this state.

[ 2009 c 278 § 2.]

Looks like its been this way for over a decade. Not only is it illegal, it's a FELONY! :surprise:

Bigjohn 08-22-2019 08:15 PM

What the pit is wrong with this stupid state! You can grow, buy, sell, and smoke weed anywhere but cigars and pipes are a big no


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cory1984 08-22-2019 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigjohn (Post 5657282)
What the pit is wrong with this stupid state! You can grow, buy, sell, and smoke weed anywhere but cigars and pipes are a big no

Their list of "reasons":

The proliferation of online sales potentially posed several problems for Washington and its residents:

  • Selling tobacco to minors is illegal in Washington, as in every state. Internet and mail-order sellers offered minors relatively easy access to tobacco. Our ability to verify the age of the recipients of tobacco products sold remotely appeared to be unenforceable.
  • Internet sellers advertised that their customers can avoid state excise taxes. Purchases by Washington consumers of cigarettes over the Internet resulted in a loss of revenue to the state.
  • Because they evaded state taxes, Internet sellers placed traditional licensed distributors and retailers at a competitive disadvantage.
  • The availability of “cheap smokes” from online sellers undercut the public health purpose of Washington’s tobacco excise tax. Higher costs of tobacco products have been shown to be effective in deterring non-smokers — particularly youth — from starting to smoke, and serve as an incentive for smokers to quit.
  • Internet sellers offeed for sale tobacco products manufactured by some companies that have not complied with Washington’s tobacco product manufacturer certification process, and, therefore, were not legal for sale in Washington. These sales violated RCW 70.157 and 70.158 (Washington’s “escrow” statute and “complementary” legislation).
    https://www.atg.wa.gov/ban-internet-...-tobacco-sales

Bigjohn 08-22-2019 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cory1984 (Post 5657278)
Effective July 28, 2009, RCW 70.155.140 makes it illegal for most tobacco products ordered or purchased by telephone, mail order, or through the Internet, to be shipped directly to consumers in Washington.

RCW 70.155.140


Shipping or transporting tobacco products ordered or purchased by mail or through the internet prohibitedPenalty.


(1) A person may not:
(a) Ship or transport, or cause to be shipped or transported, any tobacco product ordered or purchased by mail or through the internet to anyone in this state other than a licensed wholesaler or retailer; or
(b) With knowledge or reason to know of the violation, provide substantial assistance to a person who is in violation of this section.
(2)(a) A person who knowingly violates subsection (1) of this section is guilty of a class C felony, except that the maximum fine that may be imposed is five thousand dollars.
(b) In addition to or in lieu of any other civil or criminal remedy provided by law, a person who has violated subsection (1) of this section is subject to a civil penalty of up to five thousand dollars for each violation. The attorney general, acting in the name of the state, may seek recovery of the penalty in a civil action in superior court. For purposes of this subsection, each shipment or transport of tobacco products constitutes a separate violation.
(3) The attorney general may seek an injunction in superior court to restrain a threatened or actual violation of subsection (1) of this section and to compel compliance with subsection (1) of this section.
(4) Any violation of subsection (1) of this section is not reasonable in relation to the development and preservation of business and is an unfair and deceptive act or practice and an unfair method of competition in the conduct of trade or commerce in violation of RCW 19.86.020. Standing to bring an action to enforce RCW 19.86.020 for violation of subsection (1) of this section lies solely with the attorney general. Remedies provided by chapter 19.86 RCW are cumulative and not exclusive.
(5)(a) In any action brought under this section, the state is entitled to recover, in addition to other relief, the costs of investigation, expert witness fees, costs of the action, and reasonable attorneys' fees.
(b) If a court determines that a person has violated subsection (1) of this section, the court shall order any profits, gain, gross receipts, or other benefit from the violation to be disgorged and paid to the state treasurer for deposit in the general fund.
(6) Unless otherwise expressly provided, the penalties or remedies, or both, under this section are in addition to any other penalties and remedies available under any other law of this state.

[ 2009 c 278 § 2.]

Looks like its been this way for over a decade. Not only is it illegal, it's a FELONY! :surprise:



Never heard of this before, have purchased pipe tobacco from another website as well as cigars from a dozen different websites without an issue


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UBC03 08-22-2019 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cory1984 (Post 5657278)
Effective July 28, 2009, RCW 70.155.140 makes it illegal for most tobacco products ordered or purchased by telephone, mail order, or through the Internet, to be shipped directly to consumers in Washington.

RCW 70.155.140


Shipping or transporting tobacco products ordered or purchased by mail or through the internet prohibitedPenalty.


(1) A person may not:
(a) Ship or transport, or cause to be shipped or transported, any tobacco product ordered or purchased by mail or through the internet to anyone in this state other than a licensed wholesaler or retailer; or
(b) With knowledge or reason to know of the violation, provide substantial assistance to a person who is in violation of this section.
(2)(a) A person who knowingly violates subsection (1) of this section is guilty of a class C felony, except that the maximum fine that may be imposed is five thousand dollars.
(b) In addition to or in lieu of any other civil or criminal remedy provided by law, a person who has violated subsection (1) of this section is subject to a civil penalty of up to five thousand dollars for each violation. The attorney general, acting in the name of the state, may seek recovery of the penalty in a civil action in superior court. For purposes of this subsection, each shipment or transport of tobacco products constitutes a separate violation.
(3) The attorney general may seek an injunction in superior court to restrain a threatened or actual violation of subsection (1) of this section and to compel compliance with subsection (1) of this section.
(4) Any violation of subsection (1) of this section is not reasonable in relation to the development and preservation of business and is an unfair and deceptive act or practice and an unfair method of competition in the conduct of trade or commerce in violation of RCW 19.86.020. Standing to bring an action to enforce RCW 19.86.020 for violation of subsection (1) of this section lies solely with the attorney general. Remedies provided by chapter 19.86 RCW are cumulative and not exclusive.
(5)(a) In any action brought under this section, the state is entitled to recover, in addition to other relief, the costs of investigation, expert witness fees, costs of the action, and reasonable attorneys' fees.
(b) If a court determines that a person has violated subsection (1) of this section, the court shall order any profits, gain, gross receipts, or other benefit from the violation to be disgorged and paid to the state treasurer for deposit in the general fund.
(6) Unless otherwise expressly provided, the penalties or remedies, or both, under this section are in addition to any other penalties and remedies available under any other law of this state.

[ 2009 c 278 § 2.]

Looks like its been this way for over a decade. Not only is it illegal, it's a FELONY! :surprise:

Kudos on the Google skills..

Still the dumbest thing I've ever heard..

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zcziggy 08-22-2019 08:48 PM

sad part...is only going to get worse

Olecharlie 08-22-2019 09:20 PM

Total Insanity!

Hickorynut 08-22-2019 09:47 PM

Sounds like a sweetheart deal to protect the brick and mortar stores.....

Seems like it would be veritably unenforceable, but for the vendor complying up front.

Sent from: Bubba's Shine Palace...BYOJ...

msmith1986 08-22-2019 09:51 PM

PA still has no cigar tax and a few cents on pipe tobacco. Hopefully it stays that way. It probably will since CI, Altadis, and others are here.

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Bigjohn 08-23-2019 01:17 PM

Pipes and Cigars won’t Ship to WA?!?!
 
The more I look into it the less it makes sense. I can’t find enough information online to have a solid conclusion. I called the retailer and spoke to two different people, neither could give me a reason and said it has something to do with either taxes or shipping, probably (least helpful answer ever). It also looks like, at least in their case, it only applies to loose tobacco. They can ship cigars to Washington state but not pipe tobacco. I have limited experience with pipe tobacco and have only purchased it from one other website, which didn’t have the same restriction. I had also never heard this being an issue with cigars with countless websites that I have used. This particular retailer has a similar rule for the state of Maryland, which they also couldn’t give me an exact reason on the why that is.

But hey, who needs this evil pipe tobacco when there is a weed shop on every corner [Insert the most dramatic eye roll emoji you can find here]


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Rondo 08-23-2019 01:24 PM

I was annoyed a couple years ago when I found out liquor can’t be shipped to my state (there’s a htf Mexican liquor my wife likes) but that’s nothing compared to this.
I couldn’t afford a third of my stash at B&M prices.

cory1984 08-23-2019 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigjohn (Post 5657614)
The more I look into it the less it makes sense. I can’t find enough information online to have a solid conclusion. I called the retailer and spoke to two different people, neither could give me a reason and said it has something to do with either taxes or shipping, probably (least helpful answer ever). It also looks like, at least in their case, it only applies to loose tobacco. They can ship cigars to Washington state but not pipe tobacco. I have limited experience with pipe tobacco and have only purchased it from one other website, which didn’t have the same restriction. I had also never heard this being an issue with cigars with countless websites that I have used. This particular retailer has a similar rule for the state of Maryland, which they also couldn’t give me an exact reason on the why that is.

But hey, who needs this evil pipe tobacco when there is a weed shop on every corner [Insert the most dramatic eye roll emoji you can find here]

A solid conclusion about what? The letter of the law is right there in front of you: "(1) A person may not: Ship or transport, or cause to be shipped or transported, any tobacco product ordered or purchased by mail or through the internet to anyone in this state other than a licensed wholesaler or retailer;" Why would you contact the retailer when your state clearly has the laws posted? They probably couldn't give you an exact reason because they don't live in your state, and don't abide by the same rules. Plus retailers aren't taking the same amount of risk by shipping to you as you are ordering, The law only applies to WA state residents, so I would take their opinions with a grain of salt. YOU will be the one to get in trouble for illegal purchases, and they just want your money. You can probably buy tobacco at every corner as well, it just may not be what you want or the price you want. You can't ship weed into your state either, so I don't understand the comparison.
Just to be clear, I don't disagree with your point of view. I just don't think foot stomping around about a 10 year old clearly stated law is gonna get you very far. Even if you got away with it before.

zcziggy 08-23-2019 02:35 PM

84 Attachment(s)
Should I get popcorn?

JohnBrody15 08-23-2019 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigjohn (Post 5657614)
The more I look into it the less it makes sense. I can’t find enough information online to have a solid conclusion. I called the retailer and spoke to two different people, neither could give me a reason and said it has something to do with either taxes or shipping, probably (least helpful answer ever). It also looks like, at least in their case, it only applies to loose tobacco. They can ship cigars to Washington state but not pipe tobacco. I have limited experience with pipe tobacco and have only purchased it from one other website, which didn’t have the same restriction. I had also never heard this being an issue with cigars with countless websites that I have used. This particular retailer has a similar rule for the state of Maryland, which they also couldn’t give me an exact reason on the why that is.

But hey, who needs this evil pipe tobacco when there is a weed shop on every corner [Insert the most dramatic eye roll emoji you can find here]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think on the surface, the gov wants you to buy products in-state to help support local business, but they also get to regulate it and take a cut of the money. It's harder for them to regulate what's coming in online. You're right in being piqued by the fact that tobacco is totally demonized and weed isn't, but that's a whole 'nother discussion....

Bigjohn 08-23-2019 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cory1984 (Post 5657640)
A solid conclusion about what? The letter of the law is right there in front of you: "(1) A person may not: Ship or transport, or cause to be shipped or transported, any tobacco product ordered or purchased by mail or through the internet to anyone in this state other than a licensed wholesaler or retailer;" Why would you contact the retailer when your state clearly has the laws posted? They probably couldn't give you an exact reason because they don't live in your state, and don't abide by the same rules. Plus retailers aren't taking the same amount of risk by shipping to you as you are ordering, The law only applies to WA state residents, so I would take their opinions with a grain of salt. YOU will be the one to get in trouble for illegal purchases, and they just want your money. You can probably buy tobacco at every corner as well, it just may not be what you want or the price you want. You can't ship weed into your state either, so I don't understand the comparison.
Just to be clear, I don't disagree with your point of view. I just don't think foot stomping around about a 10 year old clearly stated law is gonna get you very far. Even if you got away with it before.



I find this post shortsighted in many ways. My original post was looking for information with a side of venting. There has to be other addendum‘s or amendments that play into this. I do not believe that huge national retailers, every single one of them except for this one, is breaking the law by shipping a product illegally. Thank you for finding this single statute, this does not answer my question but perhaps it is a piece of the puzzle. You have pointed to it a couple of times but the same vendor is able to ship cigars to me, which is also a tobacco product, thus me looking for answers, not stomping my feet in anger. I do not appreciate your tone but perhaps I am just not reading it right so I won’t focus on it.


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cory1984 08-23-2019 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigjohn (Post 5657674)
I find this post shortsighted in many ways. My original post was looking for information with a side of venting. There has to be other addendum‘s or amendments that play into this. I do not believe that huge national retailers, every single one of them except for this one, is breaking the law by shipping a product illegally. Thank you for finding this single statute, this does not answer my question but perhaps it is a piece of the puzzle. You have pointed to it a couple of times but the same vendor is able to ship cigars to me, which is also a tobacco product, thus me looking for answers, not stomping my feet in anger. I do not appreciate your tone but perhaps I am just not reading it right so I won’t focus on it.

I fail to see how my previous post is shortsighted, but fair enough. My apologies if you feel my post had a confrontational tone, I was simply taken a back by your confusion about this when it seems quite clear to me. The purpose of my posts here is to inform you. Retailers can be tricky, as I stated in my earlier post, they aren't held to the same regulations that you are since they don't reside in your state. So this is probably why they are still willing to ship to you at your risk. You're right there are amendments to this kind of thing, I know there are for wholesalers. I am definitely not looking for an argument here, as I said, I don't disagree with your point of view on this at all. I just wasn't understanding some of what you posted.

Kidvegas 08-23-2019 08:18 PM

https://tenor.com/RfpQ.gif

Sent from The Cauldron Of Insanity

SoCal Gunner 08-23-2019 09:19 PM

@Bigjohn - I'd be happy to mule it for you.

Sent from the fetal position

Hickorynut 08-23-2019 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCal Gunner (Post 5657966)
@Bigjohn - I'd be happy to mule it for you.

Sent from the fetal position

Wonderful offer my contraband cousin!

Sent from: Bubba's Shine Palace...BYOJ...

UBC03 08-23-2019 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCal Gunner (Post 5657966)
@Bigjohn - I'd be happy to mule it for you.

Sent from the fetal position

I can see you now.. keistering three tins plum pudding across the border of Washington..

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greypilgrim76 08-23-2019 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UBC03 (Post 5657994)
I can see you now.. keistering three tins plum pudding across the border of Washington..

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I think I'd stay away from the 8 oz. canisters in this particular scenario.

Bigjohn 08-23-2019 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCal Gunner (Post 5657966)
@Bigjohn - I'd be happy to mule it for you.

Sent from the fetal position



Appreciate the offer brother! I might take you up on it if these guys end up being the only retailer for something I can’t live without :)


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SoCal Gunner 08-23-2019 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UBC03 (Post 5657994)
I can see you now.. keistering three tins plum pudding across the border of Washington..

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...4476920dab.gif

Sent from the fetal position

UBC03 08-23-2019 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCal Gunner (Post 5658018)

Literally made me laugh out loud.. I scared ther hell outta my dog.

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jmt8706 08-23-2019 11:31 PM

I was gunna suggest sending someone out of state some paypal dinero, and have them order the sticks, then ship them to you from their address, but section 1A looks like that idea is out the window.

GunnyJ 08-27-2019 08:17 PM

Could be worse...


"The City Council of Beverly Hills, California, voted unanimously on Tuesday to ban, beginning in 2021, almost all sales of tobacco products. Cigarettes, cigars and e-cigarettes will no longer be sold at gas stations, pharmacies, convenience stores or by grocers, according to The Associated Press. Exempted from the ban are hotels and three cigar lounges in the tony Los Angeles suburb, the AP reported. The hotel carve-out was made to help accommodate tourists, but they'll still have to go smoke outside. It's the first such ban in the U.S."


https://abcnews.go.com/US/beverly-hi...ry?id=63496226

zcziggy 08-27-2019 08:39 PM

Next step.... The gulag and rationing cards


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