Couple of Forum Questions on Cubans and Forum Etiquette. - Page 3 - Cigar Discussion Forums
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post #21 of 66 Old 02-23-2008, 08:22 PM
 
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Re: Couple of Forum Questions on Cubans and Forum Etiquette.

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Originally Posted by gnukfu View Post
That's because everyone is talking about you there. You will be allowed in as soon as the furor dies down.
Ya you will see it soon enough, it is right next to the I don't like silverfox67 lounge!!

I love you pics brother!
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post #22 of 66 Old 02-23-2008, 09:52 PM
 
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Re: Couple of Forum Questions on Cubans and Forum Etiquette.

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Originally Posted by pnoon View Post
The forum rules and guidelines apply to everyone - no matter where you live.
Besides, the laws have nothing to do with where you live. If you are a US citizen, Cubans are illegal no matter if you are in Canada, Europe, or anywhere else outside the US.


I hope this clears up any confusion.
Sorry, but this rather creates a little confusion. I am not sure if this is correct. If it is, can you give me a source that supports your claim? It's not that I want to challenge you but I want to avoid that people get the wrong impression.

If you are a US citizen you can legally smoke a Cuban cigar anywhere in the world (exclude places you cannot go, of course, but you know what I mean). It is not forbidden to smoke a Cuban cigar in the USA whether you are a US citizen or whether you are here and have a foreign passport.

The trick is that it is not legal for anyone (some diplomatic exceptions certainly apply) to purchase, sell or import Cuban cigars in the USA.

The Embargo aims at an economic sanction not at a deprivation of personal freedom.

I am quite certain of the above from how I understand all the stuff I read about it. The interpretation you give would be scandalously restrictive and quite possibly unconstitutional (like many other laws).

The only thing where I am not sure is whether it is allowed for an American to buy Cubans abroad and then smoke them there without bringing any into the US. I believe this is allowed.

At the same level I believe it is not illegal for an 18 year old American to drink in a country where the legal age is 18 even if here it would be illegal for him or her.

Reciprocity and validity of laws on an international level is a difficult subject and I am by no means an expert, so perhaps we have some people here who have actually studied law or at least have a firm grasp of the subject at hand.

Till

P.S.: Note that you should never buy a Cuban and then smoke him or her. The poor people have enough trouble as is.
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post #23 of 66 Old 02-23-2008, 10:31 PM
 
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Re: Couple of Forum Questions on Cubans and Forum Etiquette.

From the OFAC Cuban Sanctions brochure (linked):
Quote:
TRANSACTIONS INVOLVING PROPERTY IN WHICH CUBA OR A CUBAN NATIONAL HAS AN INTEREST - In addition to the prohibitions on exports to and imports from Cuba, the Regulations prohibit any person subject to U.S. jurisdiction from dealing in any property in which Cuba or a Cuban national has an interest. Under the Regulations, “property” includes but is not limited to contracts and services. For example, unless otherwise authorized, persons subject to U.S. jurisdiction (including U.S. overseas subsidiaries) may not purchase Cuban cigars in Mexico; may not sign a contract with a U.K. firm if the contract terms include Cuba-related provisions (even if those provisions are contingent upon the lifting of the embargo); and may not provide accounting, marketing, sales, or insurance services to a Cuban company or to a foreign company with respect to the foreign company’s Cuba-related business.
And from the OFAC "Cuban Cigar Update" (linked):
Quote:
Transactions Involving Cuban-Origin Goods in Third Countries

The question is often asked whether United States citizens or permanent resident aliens of the United States may legally purchase Cuban origin goods, including tobacco and alcohol products, in a third country for personal use outside the United States. The answer is no. The Regulations prohibit persons subject to the jurisdiction of the United States from purchasing, transporting, importing, or otherwise dealing in or engaging in any transactions with respect to any merchandise outside the United States if such merchandise (1) is of Cuban origin; or (2) is or has been located in or transported from or through Cuba; or(3) is made or derived in whole or in part of any article which is the growth, produce or manufacture of Cuba. Thus, in the case of cigars, the prohibition extends to cigars manufactured in Cuba and sold in a third country and to cigars manufactured in a third country from tobacco grown in Cuba.
Before the quoted part of the "Cuban Cigar Update" it says
Quote:
Importation of these Cuban goods is prohibited whether the goods are purchased directly by the importer or given to the importer as a gift,
dissolving the line between purchasing cuban goods and just partaking in them.
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post #24 of 66 Old 02-24-2008, 01:38 AM
 
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Re: Couple of Forum Questions on Cubans and Forum Etiquette.

Super, very nice find. I hadn't seen this one in my little research on the customs website.

The first one still leaves a doubt as to whether you are under US jurisdiction if you are abroad. Personally, I would say, no you are not. You are under the jurisdiction of the country you are in (unless you are diplomatic or military personnel). This is why a young German in the USA cannot be served alcohol if he is not yet 21.

But the second one leaves no doubt. Why people don't rebel against this type of absolutely BS legislation, will not enter my mind. I mean I see that the USA does not want to support Fidel's regime but from there to determining what you buy and consume when you are not even in the USA is ridiculous.

Third, it would remain to be seen if it were illegal to smoke a Cuban cigar abroad if there is no transaction involved. Say you find a Cuban cigar in a tray at your host's table. You take that thing and smoke it. No transaction.

Fourth, aren't there cigars offered here in the USA that are openly advertised as being grown in Nicaragua, for example, from Cuban seed?

Thanks again for the elucidating and shocking links. I stand partly corrected and totally appalled.

Till
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post #25 of 66 Old 02-24-2008, 01:51 AM
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Re: Couple of Forum Questions on Cubans and Forum Etiquette.

Quote:
Originally Posted by silverfox67 View Post
Ok so I was re reading the rules for CS and I just want to make sure that I am not offside here.

I have posted a few pictures of my recent purchases of mostly Cubans, these have been either purchased from the local B&M or an online supplier here in Alberta (Canadian law says you can't ship tobacco interprovincially) so all my Cubans are fully legit. Also as I am in Canada it is perfectly legal to buy Cubans, in fact it is harder to find a good source of NC's than it is to buy cubans.

I am assuming I am not offside of forum rules by posting my purchases of Cubans here but if that is not the case let me know I have no desire to have any unnecessary scrutiny come to the forum.

Ok on to my next question, I love to post my purchases and share with all the brothers and sisters on CS, but it occurred to me that it might seem like bragging or showing off and I don't want this to be the case either, I think this is a great place to share and I have thoroughly enjoyed spending my time on here (ok maybe way to much time) and look forward to for a long time to come. I am the kind of person that will share every single order or stick I get and post them on here..............hell I would even post a pack of backwoods sweets if I bought them and fully accept the abuse I would take. However, if it is too much then let me know and I will refrain. Sometimes I come on a little strong and as I am new that can tick people off.

Alright that should about cover it. Thanks to all the great BOTL and SOTL for making me feel welcome and everyone else so far I have not seen/met one person on here that wasn't a great individual
So a quick review:

It's OK to post pictures of your cigars.
It's OK to talk about your cigars in the appropriate forum.. which may take just a wee bit more patience if you read between the lines of some of the posts. (There are many things here which unfold over time)
It's not OK to link to or post names of sources which ship to the US.
Does paying crazy Canadian prices make the cigars taste better?
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post #26 of 66 Old 02-24-2008, 02:05 AM
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Re: Couple of Forum Questions on Cubans and Forum Etiquette.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tfar View Post
The first one still leaves a doubt as to whether you are under US jurisdiction if you are abroad. Personally, I would say, no you are not. You are under the jurisdiction of the country you are in (unless you are diplomatic or military personnel). This is why a young German in the USA cannot be served alcohol if he is not yet 21.
The first one does not state "under US jurisdiction" it states "subject to US jurisdiction". As a US citizen you are always subject to US jurisdiction. As a US citizen, you may not buy Cuban goods without authorization. Period.

If that's your best, your best won't do.
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post #27 of 66 Old 02-24-2008, 02:05 AM
 
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Re: Couple of Forum Questions on Cubans and Forum Etiquette.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tfar View Post
I stand partly corrected and totally appalled.

Till
Thanks for being so humble.



The following is factual.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pnoon View Post
The forum rules and guidelines apply to everyone - no matter where you live.
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post #28 of 66 Old 02-24-2008, 02:10 AM
 
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Re: Couple of Forum Questions on Cubans and Forum Etiquette.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tfar View Post
Fourth, aren't there cigars offered here in the USA that are openly advertised as being grown in Nicaragua, for example, from Cuban seed?


From the OFAC "Cuban Cigar Update" (linked):
Quote:
Cigars Produced from Cuban Tobacco Seed - OFAC does not consider cigars produced from tobacco grown and harvested in a third country from Cuban seeds to constitute a growth or product of Cuba. Therefore, the Regulations do not prevent transactions or dealing in those products by persons subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, as long as there is no interest of Cuba or a Cuban national, direct or indirect, in the sale of such cigars.
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post #29 of 66 Old 02-24-2008, 02:18 AM
 
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Re: Couple of Forum Questions on Cubans and Forum Etiquette.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pnoon View Post
The forum rules and guidelines apply to everyone - no matter where you live.
Besides, the laws have nothing to do with where you live. If you are a US citizen, Cubans are illegal no matter if you are in Canada, Europe, or anywhere else outside the US.

Some of the rules/guidelines are in place to protect the forum from exposure and/or scrutiny. So even if you are a German citizen, living in Germany, you are still not allowed to discuss sources or post links to vendors or Cuban cigars.

I hope this clears up any confusion.
Gee, were talking about anyone in particular or was that just a general statement?? my bad.. hehe
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post #30 of 66 Old 02-24-2008, 02:29 AM
 
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Re: Couple of Forum Questions on Cubans and Forum Etiquette.

Quote:
Originally Posted by havana_lover View Post
Gee, were talking about anyone in particular or was that just a general statement?? my bad.. hehe
No one in particular, Oliver. Sorry you (or anyone else from Germany) might have inferred that. Just picked a country to illustrate a point.
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